Justified By Faith
May 1st, 2009 by Sonja

I read something last night that I’m finding difficult to reconcile.  It was an article in CNN.  And I really do not understand how people who claim to follow a person/God who said these things (among many other similar things):

Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.

Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.  (all from Matthew ch. 5)

That’s just one chapter, one sermon that Jesus preached.  Just one.  No parables.  Nothing out of the ordinary.  Simple words declaring to all that those who follow Him must always keep love for the other uppermost in their minds.  If that’s the case, how is this then possible?

The more often Americans go to church, the more likely they are to support the torture of suspected terrorists, according to a new survey.

More than half of people who attend services at least once a week — 54 percent — said the use of torture against suspected terrorists is “often” or “sometimes” justified. Only 42 percent of people who “seldom or never” go to services agreed, according to the analysis released Wednesday by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.  (report in CNN)

Before you go all empire on me, just remember that we who claim Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour are not called to support the kingdoms of this world.  We are render unto Caesar the things due him, other than that, we are called to support the endless Kingdom of God.  So would anyone care to explain this to me in a way that does not include references to defending one’s country, because as Christians we do not have a country, we have a Kingdom.  Anyone?  Anyone?  Buehler?


15 Responses  
  • Joan Calvin writes:
    May 1st, 20099:22 amat

    You know even the “render unto Caesar” statement is not a statement to give to the government what belongs to it. Studying the pericope leads me to understand that because we are made in the image of God, that we bear God’s image (from Genesis), then we and all we have belong to God. And, yes, I do understand the CNN article. It says “church goers” not Christians. The survey said that evangelicals were more likely to support torture than either mainliners or non church goes. Evangelicals tend to have a theology based in a misreading (IMHO) of the Bible that is an avenging and judging God theology. And so if God avenges and they are God’s representatives on earth, then they get to avenge and judge. And, the reason is they do not read the scriptures with any sort of reasoning going on. Oh, I shouldn’t get started.

           
  • roger writes:
    May 1st, 20099:55 amat

    Now we really know what Jesus would do!!

           
  • K.W. Leslie writes:
    May 1st, 200910:04 amat

    Christians don’t love their enemies. Plain and simple. They love them even less when they’re abstract.

    To the respondents, this isn’t a real-world question; not to their worlds, anyway. They don’t really have enemies. All the folks we have petty grievances against don’t really count as “enemies.” We’ve never really been pinned down, by Jesus, into being obligated to love them. So we don’t.

    Terrorists, for a lot of us, fall into that category. They haven’t killed any family members or friends of mine. I haven’t been forced to love them, so I don’t. So if someone asked me, “You think it’s okay to waterboard them?” very little thought—about them—would go into my answer one way or the other. I’d either say yes out of emotion, or no out of principle.

    Now if they had caused suffering in my life, and I had to deal with concrete enemies, not abstract ones—then Jesus would put His statement to love my enemies right in my face, and force me to admit I never practiced it before, start, and see His grace in it.

    This poll is simply an indicator of immaturity.

           
  • Maria writes:
    May 1st, 200910:45 amat

    The poll is an indicator of the legacy of Christendom, where the church becomes a power in the world and operates just like any other — including the use of torture (no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!). Christians raised in the realm of Christendom (including and especially evangelicals) haven’t been taught in any real way to live out the ethics of Jesus or the priorities of his Kingdom. We can quote the verses all day long, but we have no concrete idea how to put them into practice — and few models close by showing us how.

           
  • Matt Stone writes:
    May 2nd, 200910:27 amat

    I think a lot of it comes down to fear fo the unknown, justified retrospectively by misinterpretations of Romans 13

           
  • Brutally Honest writes:
    May 2nd, 20099:42 pmat

    The intolerant, dare I say fundamentalist, Religious Left strike again…

    It’s either their way or the hell way: That’s just one chapter, one sermon that Jesus preached [Sermon on the Mount – Matt 5*]. Just one. No parables. Nothing out of the ordinary. Simple words declaring to all that those……

           
  • Larry Who writes:
    May 3rd, 200912:33 pmat

    It’s funny how Christians can look at the Pew Survey and come away with two entirely different views. Your article condemns all Christians who agree with torture and you quote scriptures to back up your argument.

    I read the Pew Survey and immediately thought, “This is from the accuser of the brethren. It will bring division into the Body of Christ.”

    So, why did I think that? White. Evangelical. And no definition of the word “torture”.

    Hello! War is not nice. Is it torture to imprison captured soldiers? Is it torture to interrogate them? Is it torture to threaten them? What are the limits of acceptable or unacceptable torture?

    Isn’t it funny that the biggest backers of doing away with all types of interrogation tactics used by our armed forces are also the biggest backers of murdering babies, assisted suicides and euthanasia? What’s wrong with this picture?

    I’m saddened when I read articles like this!

           
  • Sonja writes:
    May 3rd, 20092:05 pmat

    Wow Larry … you sure do like to make a lot of assumptions when you read one article.

    Based on a few sentences I’ve written you say I want to do away with ALL types of interrogation. Interesting. And, based on this, I’m also a backer of murdering babies, assisted suicide and euthanasia.

    Really? I’m shocked, really, I am. And interested to find this out about myself since I was unaware of these proclivities in my makeup. Since I know several of the other commenters here, I’m certain they would be surprised to find this out about themselves as well. But that’s not the gist of what this post is about, so I’ll not discuss that here.

    Perhaps the larger question to ask yourself is whether Christians should be condoning war? Of what kingdom are you a citizen? Where are your priorities first? To the Kingdom of God, or the state of man?

    You ask some other questions which are fairly silly. War isn’t nice. Imprisoning captured soldiers was not a question on the table and is a straw man. No one even questions whether or not we should imprison soldiers. However, imprisoning farmers and villagers without right to habeus corpus for years on end? Well, is that really a value that you care to defend with your life? Here’s the thing. If the government is willing to do that to enemy combatants, who is to say where that line will be drawn next. Who is to say when you or I won’t be defined as enemy combatants and imprisoned without the right of habeus corpus for years on end; without right to adequate defense; and our attorneys would not have access to evidence against us, etc. Does that sound like the United States or the Soviet Union?

    There’s simply no justification for torture … ever. Properly executed interrogation techniques are a whole other ballgame. I recognize the necessity for them in a fallen world, but I don’t like them. The US government has signed the appropriate international conventions agreeing to limit itself in times of war and to treat prisoners humanely because we are a civilized society. When we cease to abide by those rules, we become the very thing we are fighting against. We become the terrorists. And there’s no excusing it.

           
  • Larry Who writes:
    May 3rd, 20092:25 pmat

    You read the Pew Survey and CNN and made assumptions. I, too, read it and made assumption.

    Then, you wrote an article and guess what? I read it and made assumptions. Isn’t that what readers are supposed do?

    I’ll stand by what I wrote. You seem to be doing the wiggling, not me.

    And if you decide to write on war, let me know. I’ll stop by and use the New Testament arguments only to support my views.

           
  • vikingfru writes:
    May 11th, 200911:54 amat

    I think war brings out ugly in alot of us. I am struggling with what it truely means to be a peacemaker. I find this article very disturbing, mainly because I find it true. And if I am to be completely honest, part of me says, hell yeah do what needs to be done. BUT then there is a quiet check somewhere deep inside of me that makes me stop and question that.
    To Larry, I think you could probably use scripture to defend all of your belief, if you are right is entirely another matter.

           
  • Larry Who writes:
    May 11th, 20099:56 pmat

    vikingfru,

    If you check over my comments, you will notice that I was not arguing over the merits of torture, but rather I was talking about the validity of the Pew Survey. In that, this survey only used whites, evangelicals and did not give a definition of what they meant by using the word “torture.” Then, the CNN article went on to slam Christians as being nasty. Yipes!

    Surveys are to be done by scientific method. How can this survey be an example of such when it’s core sample is less than a random assortment of the whole?

    As far as scripture goes, how about Proverbs 11:1? “A false balance is an abomination to the Lord, but a just weight is His delight.”

           
  • vikingfru writes:
    May 12th, 200912:43 pmat

    Well Larry what I was referring to was “And if you decide to write on war, let me know. I’ll stop by and use the New Testament arguments only to support my views.”

           
  • Steve Hayes writes:
    May 13th, 20091:11 pmat

    Idolatry. Something more important than the Lord God, something that takes precedence.

           
  • Janet writes:
    May 30th, 200912:39 amat

    Actually Larry, I would be interested to read your arguments from the New Testament (and the teachings of Jesus in particular) to justify Christians participating in war. Why wait for Sonia?

           
  • Aaron G writes:
    May 30th, 200910:07 pmat

    Wow it looks like just talking about war brings out a lot of intense emotions. I am at a loss to explain why so many church going Christians are so supportive of torture. I think that a lot of people really think that God is on our side, and that He actually cares more about American lives than he does about the lives of people from other countries. And we act so shocked when people in other countries hate us and think that we are arrogant

           


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