Three thousand deaths.

The number of permanently maimed is much more difficult to track down. I’m not certain that mental scars will ever be tracked.

I was in a waiting room this afternoon waiting. There was a delay for my appointment. I took the opportunity to read a newspaper that was waiting there. On the same page where the installation of the first female “Speaker of the House of Representatives” was heralded, the number three thousand was mourned. The President is widely believed to be planning to send more troops in order to bring about a swift resolution to the matter.

I believe that a common definition of insanity is continuing to pursue the same behavior over and over again and expecting different results.

I felt a wave of sadness wash over me as read about three thousand deaths. I remembered back just three short years ago when this war was young and it was declared over. There had only been about a hundred deaths. Victory seemed to be in our grasp. And I remembered too, the walk we took the other day with the LightGrandParents on a Civil War battlefield not too far from our home. When the battle was looming, the hoi poloi from Washington DC packed picnic lunches and came out to watch the battle, surely the war was soon to be over. The date of the battle? August 22, 1861. The remainder of that war was no picnic.

War is indeed insanity.

As posted on RevGalBlogPals …

So this is a “Black Friday” Five (aka Buy Nothing Day) in honor of the busiest shopping day of the year:

1. Would you ever/have you ever stood in line for something–tickets, good deals on electronics, Tickle Me Elmo?

Well … I’ve never stood in a literal line.  But I’ve stood in a virtual line … I had access to early tickets to U2’s Vertigo tour.  I had to load, reload, reload, until I finally got into the site and got my tickets.  It was high energy and sort of fun.

There was another time when LightGirl was little and a special Barbie was on sale early on Black Friday.  I refused to stand in line and thus lost out on this super special dealio.  So did LightGirl.  Oh well.

2. Do you enjoy shopping as a recreational activity?

No, not really.  I’m more tolerant of browsing than LightHusband, but generally I need to have a list in mind to venture into a store.

3. Your favorite place to browse without necessarily buying anything.

Oh well … that would be any one of several on-line fabric stores 😉 … I often play on their design walls for an hour or two and then “go home” empty-handed.

4. Gift cards: handy gifts for the loved one who has everything, or cold impersonal symbol of all that is wrong in our culture?

The tired, overworked part of me says they are handy gifts for loved ones … especially my nieces and nephews who love to pick stuff out for themselves.  On the other hand, the creative artist in me loves to make small gifts for friends and family and is horrified by impersonal pieces of plastic.  I think they have their place, but they can also be overused.  And, I would much rather have a gift card from a fabric store than another tchochke that I have to dust (speaking as a recipient).

5. Discuss the spiritual and theological issues inherent in people coming to blows over a Playstation 3.

Hmmm … well, actually I think this is a cold impersonal symbol of all that is wrong in our culture.  It would be easy to say it’s greed.  But I don’t think it is.  I think it’s short-sightedness.  It’s more like an inability to wait one’s turn.  Even when it appears that the turn may take several weeks.  I’m not sure why this happens.  But people decide that they have a “right” to have a certain thing at a certain time and decide to assert their rights over that of someone else.  I see this failure of our ability to wait our turn at many levels in our culture, and I wonder if this is how we handle Playstation 3’s what will happen as we begin to run out of oil?  Or perhaps we handle Playstation 3’s in this manner precisely because of how our leaders are handling the potential for oil shortages?  I’m not entirely sure which comes first….

My parents and my favorite uncle stopped in for a brief visit yesterday morning. We served brunch and had a lovely chat. I haven’t seen Uncle Ralph since my grandmother’s funeral. Sad, but true.

As breakfast wound down, my father turned to me and said, “So, how do you think the Dems are going to do now that the election is over?” Wow … a real grown up question. I must be a real grown up now.

I think the election was a vindication of Howard Dean’s leadership strategy. This is a strategy that Dean originated in his presidential campaign of 2004. The Democrats have been famous for extremely selectively spending their money. They have been putting all of their eggs in just a few baskets for years. That is, attempting to determine which races they have the most chance of winning and then putting all the money towards those. Howard Dean reversed that trend and leverage the funds by spreading them far and wide. His strategy (which the Republicans have been using for years) is, win by 1%, just win in a lot of places. I’d say it worked.

We went on to talk about the rot in the national system versus the new blood that is now pouring into the state and local systems as a result of this election. It was a grownup conversation with my dad, my uncle and me. I was an adult conversing with two other adults. A baton was passed. A piece of my soul relaxed, flourished and grew in that moment.

Then a surprise and shock. My dad and my uncle dropped a bomb on me. They were unaware it was a bomb. It was information they always knew. I had made assumptions about my grandparents (their parents) based on what I knew of their characters, but they were not Democrats. My beloved grandfather and grandmother were … Republicans. My mind stretched and cobbled and is still trying to bridge the tension between what I know of who they were and how they could have voted for Republicans. My uncle explained it this way, “When I was growing up all the Catholics voted Democrat and all the Protestants voted Republican. We were Protestant, so we were Republican.” He went on to recount the election of Franklin Delano Roosevelt when he was approximately LightBoy’s age. He recalled his parents, aunts and uncles, and grandparents sitting around bewailing the communist/socialist tendencies of Roosevelt. That the country was coming to an end and that FDR was the equivalent of Hitler or Mussolini.

I tried to excuse this impolite transgression of my grandfather’s by revising the Republican history of the 20th century. Not so, my father reminded me. The Republicans of early to mid-century were happy to do business with the Nazi party in Germany, or the party in power in Italy (if I were a better historian I’d remember the name). What I can not come to terms with is how my grandfather, a stalwart union (Teamster) organizer and supporter, came to terms himself with the policies and politics of the Republican party … which was and is staunchly anti-union? And so, the mystery remains. It would seem that no one ever particularly talked politics with Grampy and I was never old enough.

There are some blogs I follow that I really like. Most of them may be found in my sidebar, but some of them I haven’t gotten around to adding just yet. I have to confess that I agree with almost all of them. I know that it’s good discipline to read those one does not always agree with. However, I found that it was not entirely healthy for me when I fell off my cliff earlier this year. I still read the occasional blowhard, but it’s not redemptive and causes my bloodpressure to rise so I don’t really see the point.

A blog that I read and agree with on most occasions is Willzhead, written by Will Sampson. I like his politics and his theology. But this morning he wrote something that I finally and sadly had to disagree with. I wished with all of my heart that I could agree with it, because you see, Will has hope. And I do not.

It may be that Will has hope because of where he lives. Or maybe I don’t because of where I live. Where I live people continued to vote yesterday in their same old ruts. Yes, it is entirely possible that Jim Webb will replace George Allen as our US Senator. But the fact that this race is so close makes my blood boil. It is 2006 … how can it be that so very many people will vote for a man who will call those different from him a monkey in public? If he is so willing to show disdain that easily, do they think he will not turn it on them?

Then as I trolled through the results this afternoon, I found this horrifying election result from Florida. In Florida’s 16th Congressional District 48% of the electorate voted FOR Mark Foley. The scandal surrounding his inappropriate behavior broke too late to remove his name from the ballot. The man RESIGNED from his position in Congress. Yet 110,317 people voted for him. Have they gone mad? The Democratic candidate only got 49% of the vote.

I think the primary source of my discomfort was the ease with which the Marriage Amendment passed here in Virginia.  I’m still struggling with this.  I have a hard time with the amount of money and effort that was spent defending an idea against a somewhat what specious reality, when that time and money might have been spent defending real people against a very harsh reality.  But perhaps that’s really the issue.  It’s much easier (in the long run) to rail against or for an idea than it is to get one’s hands dirty helping real flesh and blood people.  People are so darn inconvenient and they cost so much.  It’s easier, grander, more romantic and fabulous to pass a marriage amendment that protects almost no one against an enemy who does not exist, than it is to set captives free, restore sight to the blind, or bring water to the thirsty and bread to the hungry.  Or … something like that.

I hope, tho, in the long run that Will is right and I am not.

Ted Haggard, president of the National Association of Evangelicals and Senior Pastor at New Life Church in Colorado Springs, CO, has been the latest domino to fall. It’s alleged that he’s been having an affair, bought and paid for, with a man for about three years under an assumed name. He’s admitted to having purchased (but not consumed) methamphetamines with this man.

Here are the things I find interesting about this. The first is that until late in the day yesterday, many articles did not give the male escort/prostitute a name. He had a name and I’m sure it was known since he came out in a radio broadcast on Wednesday. But the news articles did not use this name for quite some time.

The second is the startling similarities between Pastor Haggard’s response to the allegations that he used methamphetamines (i.e. he bought them, but never used them) and President Clinton’s response to allegations that he used marijuana (i.e. he smoked it, but never inhaled). President Clinton’s response has been the butt of jokes and fodder for hate and fear for many years. It will be interesting to see how the evangelical community responds to Pastor Haggard’s claims.

I feel very badly for Pastor Haggard. If the allegations are true (and it appears that they may be), his body has been saying one thing, but his mind has been saying something else. He cannot be true to one without being false to the other. He has been living with his feet in two worlds. He has been caught in a bind for many years. On the other hand, if the allegations are false, he and his family have been put in a terrible position. Either way, here is a family in a terrible crisis and pain. I sincerely pray God’s peace, comfort and grace in their midst as they walk through this valley of shadow.

I can see people in both camps lining up, preparing their slings and arrows. Preparing their armaments to defend their virtue and honor. The reality is that we have all failed. Whether or not Pastor Haggard actually did anything is really beside the point anymore. The fact that so many are willing to believe that he did means that we have failed. The fact that so many are willing to believe that he didn’t without any evidence means that we have failed. The fact that the church has done so little to protect and nurture its leaders means that the church has failed and failed catastrophically. This incident points to a catatonic failure in our culture on many levels. The fact that so many on both sides of the issue are counting coups and waiting for the votes to fall their way because of it, frankly sickens me.

For me, of course, it’s the church that is of great concern.  Not simply the New Life Church that Pastor Haggard led, not just the National Association of Evangelicals, but the church worldwide, the Body of Christ if you will.  It seems to me, that not only has the church failed in allowing this to happen but it might even be said that we set Pastor Haggard up for this.  The institutional church in north America is structured in such a way that the leaders must fractured lives of perfection in front of their flocks.  Smiling, straight teeth, combed hair, suits, wives either in the choir or gazing adoringly from the first row of pews with children lined up in a row.  The sermon must be neither too short nor too long or his livelihood will be cut short.  Everyone must be kept happy.  Suddenly it is not the paradoxes of the Gospel which must be held in tension, but the desires of Mrs. Snooty-nose and Mr. Grabby-fingers.  The leaders above him in his denomination are preaching a straight-jacket theology of graceless adherence to codes of conduct rather than the Law of Love.  The wonder is not that this happened to Pastor Haggard, but that it doesn’t happen more often.

We need to be able to come to a place in our society where we are able to love the people we disagree with. Where we do not objectify or feel threatened by those who do things that make us feel uncomfortable. I wonder how things might have been different for Pastor Haggard or someone else in a similar position if we didn’t just condemn and throw stones at wrongdoers. Despite the fact that we’ve done away with physical stoning, we still manage to do terrible damage to people with metaphorical stones and I think back to the story in the Bible of the woman caught in prostitution who was brought before Jesus for proper judgment, condemnation and punishment (stoning). He sank to the ground and began writing in the sand with his finger. Then he said, “He who is without sin may cast the first stone.” When everyone had left the square (except the woman) he turned to her and said, “What? is no one left to condemn you? Then I won’t condemn you either. Go and sin no more.”

A somewhat different perspective on the Project (RED) Campaign … very funny … and thoughtful too.

And if I were more skilled with this rattin’ frattin’ blog I’d know how to change the color of my title and the fonts in the post and be all cool and all of that. But, ummm … I’m not up to speed yet. So like my AwakeFriend (who is colorblind) you’ll have to imagine the colors.

Have you heard of the Product (RED) Campaign? I’m having problems with it. When I first heard of it, I thought, “Brilliant!” Then, I thought, “Gross over-commercialism at it’s finest … blech.” Then my brainiac pendulum swung back and I thought, “You know … not everyone can be as puritanical and as philanthropic as you are. Most people need an extra boost.” See me … I want the swords beaten into plowshares … like NOW! I’m tired of waiting. I want these companies to give, not just a portion of the profits on their specific products, but the entirety of the profits. Because, come on! How much would it hurt Apple to give up the profit on one single line of iPods? How many iPods do they have? They are only giving up $10 on this particular iPod that they are selling for $199. But then, that is the brilliance of Bono. He is patient. I am not.

Then I heard about a guy in Canada. I follow his blog occasionally. It’s called Waving or Drowning (which I find highly amusing and thought provoking; both the name and the blog). It turns out that he’s had some of the same thoughts that I had about the whole Product (RED) Campaign, with one large exception. He had a great idea to do something about it. His idea is that there are a lot of people out there in the big wide world who would give just $10 to help with getting AIDS medications to Africa and he has set up a system to do that. You can go to his blog and read his challenge here, then give $10 via Paypal to him. He is promising to pass it all (100%) along to the Stephen Lewis Foundation (a non-religious foundation based in Canada which assists children who have lost parents to AIDS). So check him out. If you feel it’s worthy, give him $10 (Canadian) to help with this cause. I did it and he even sent me an e-mail to say thankyou. Somehow it feels better than buying more stuff to clog the arteries of my house just to make myself feel as tho I did good.

UPDATE: Mike Todd (the guy in Canada) has written a post dealing with some of the concerns that people might have. You can read it here. Also I thought I’d post the text of his original challenge in the body of this post … so these are Mike’s words below:

I’ve come to the conclusion that I love this program. And I hate it. Let me try to explain why.

The love part is easy. I love it because it will provide funds for saving lives. What’s not to love about that?

Here’s the part with which I’m having trouble. I hate it because it’s a sad commentary, a mirror if you will, reflecting the reality of our culture back to us. The currency of the Kingdom is love. The currency of this material, self-centered culture is “stuff.” Bono is brilliant as he has realized this, and knows we will not give out of love. HIV/AIDS is killing people in numbers too horrible to give voice to. And while this troubles us, it apparently doesn’t trouble us enough to give out of love. The brilliance of Product (Red) is that it will get the money out of us anyway. No love? Fine, then we’ll appeal to your need for the other currency, for stuff. Want a new Gap shirt, and a trendy one at that? Great. Here you go, and by the way, a couple of bucks will go to life-saving drugs.

In short, I long for a world that operates on Kingdom currency. It’s coming… just not fast enough. In the meantime, I will grit my teeth, smile, and promote the Product (RED) campaign. Heck, I’ll probably end up wearing a red t-shirt. Hypocritical? Maybe. Paradoxical? Definitely.

Now for the challenge. Robert and I have been discussing for some time the need for us to start another campaign to raise some funds here at WorD.

We’ve been looking at the (RED) iPod specifically. When you spend $200 US on the iPod, Apple will contribute $10 to the Global Fund. (Robert has changed his mind about Christmas, BTW, so don’t bother emailing his wife.)

I don’t have a clue what the profit margins are like on the iPod, but $10 doesn’t strike me as a lot of money. Let’s be realistic. It’s not. Here’s the choice: You can lay out $200, get a new iPod, and contribute $10 to a good cause. Or, you can just contribute the $10. We believe we can get 1000 people to donate $10 each. We’d like $10 from everyone in the developed world, but we’ll settle for you, and everyone you know. And when we’re done, we’ll pass the money–all of it–along to the Stephen Lewis Foundation.

First, we need your $10. Just as importantly, we then need you to reach out to all your contacts. Post a link on your blog, send out an email to your friends, hang a banner from your window… whatever it takes. We’ll keep you posted on how we’re doing.

Together, we can do this. Help prove us right. Thank you.

So, I’m still embroiled in the discussion over on Brother Maynard’s blog about Muslims and Christians and a proper response to terrorism.

It’s gotten me thinking, though.  Some of you probably smelled the smoke 😉 .

How might the world today be different if, after the 9/11 attacks, our Christ-professing President, and Christian leaders (Franklin Graham, James Dobson, Jimmy Swaggart, et al) had forgiven those who had attacked us?  What if they had lead this country in an example of forgiveness, grace and mercy following the example of the God they profess to follow?  Close your eyes for a minute or two and try to imagine the myriad of ways in which the world today might be a different place.

I’m not suggesting that this could have actually happened.  I’m just suggesting that it never will, until we begin to imagine how it might.

I wonder how many fewer terrorists there might be, because there would be less evil for Al Qaeda to point to.  Al Jazeera would be reporting on Christian good will, rather than Christian ill will.  I wonder what the ripple effects might have been.  Here, as well as abroad.  What are some of the effects that you can imagine?  Tell me about them in the comments … I’d love to know.

I just came back to my computer after an engagement with my dryer. I fear the dryer won. To be precise, the dryer vent won. Last week I noticed that it was taking an inordinate amount of time for a load of laundry to dry. I checked all the regular vents and cleaned them to no avail. This left the tubing that comes out of the bottom of the dryer and goes into the wall … all in the back of my dryer in the teeny-tiny space in my laundry room. Checking and cleaning this requires pulling the dryer away from the wall and reminding my mid-life body that it was at one time a gymnast and it can, in fact, bend, jump and climb into that tiny space. This time my body required this reminder several times as the dryer vent tube stubbornly refused to stay put once I had cleaned it out and replaced it.

I had the chance as I jumped and climbed to think about a post I’ve been reading (and commenting on) this morning. Brother Maynard’s been writing about the culture of fear that has taken over in the United States and (to a lesser extent) in Canada. He’s also been writing about what a Christian response to that might be and what the major Christian mouthpieces have been saying. I wrote a couple of comments, and started to loose my temper. It’s a sore subject for me. You see, despite the fact that there has been no further attacks on our soil since 2001, I believe the terrorists won. I should actually rephrase that, we have lost. We have given up. Retreated when we ought to have stood firm. Handed our inalienable rights over to them on a silver platter. Christians stood first in line to do this.

I have to wonder about that. I can’t make any claims to have read the entire Bible. But I have read quite a bit of it. Enough to know that one of the primary themes that runs throughout the whole of Scripture is “do not fear, for I, your God, am with you.” So when I turn on the Christian radio stations and hear the talking heads there with their messages of fear, I have to wonder just which god they believe in. The God I read about in my Bible tells me not to fear, that even when all things seem arrayed against me and those I love, I am to remember that He is for me. That all things cannot be measured by what happens in this life. I was especially reminded of this as I read in Job 38 the other day:

1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said:

2 “Who is this that darkens my counsel
with words without knowledge?

3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.

5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?

6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone-

7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?

8 “Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst forth from the womb,

9 when I made the clouds its garment
and wrapped it in thick darkness,

10 when I fixed limits for it
and set its doors and bars in place,

11 when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther;
here is where your proud waves halt’?

12 “Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,

13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?

14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.

15 The wicked are denied their light,
and their upraised arm is broken.

16 “Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea
or walked in the recesses of the deep?

17 Have the gates of death been shown to you?
Have you seen the gates of the shadow of death?

18 Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?
Tell me, if you know all this.

19 “What is the way to the abode of light?
And where does darkness reside?

20 Can you take them to their places?
Do you know the paths to their dwellings?

21 Surely you know, for you were already born!
You have lived so many years!

22 “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow
or seen the storehouses of the hail,

23 which I reserve for times of trouble,
for days of war and battle?

24 What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed,
or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?

25 Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain,
and a path for the thunderstorm,

26 to water a land where no man lives,
a desert with no one in it,

27 to satisfy a desolate wasteland
and make it sprout with grass?

28 Does the rain have a father?
Who fathers the drops of dew?

29 From whose womb comes the ice?
Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens

30 when the waters become hard as stone,
when the surface of the deep is frozen?

31 “Can you bind the beautiful Pleiades?
Can you loose the cords of Orion?

32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons
or lead out the Bear with its cubs?

33 Do you know the laws of the heavens?
Can you set up God’s dominion over the earth?

34 “Can you raise your voice to the clouds
and cover yourself with a flood of water?

35 Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?
Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’?

36 Who endowed the heart with wisdom
or gave understanding to the mind?

37 Who has the wisdom to count the clouds?
Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens

38 when the dust becomes hard
and the clods of earth stick together?

39″Do you hunt the prey for the lioness
and satisfy the hunger of the lions

40when they crouch in their dens
or lie in wait in a thicket

41 Who provides food for the raven
when its young cry out to God
and wander about for lack of food?

I was quite simply reminded that civilizations come and go. I can choose to fear those who would do evil or I can trust in good. I will not repay evil for evil, I will (with God at my back) overcome evil with good. (Romans 12:19)

This afternoon I discovered that I am a lousy Christian. I’ve always sort of known this. But today I found just how deep this vein runs. Here’s the scenario.

I needed to get gas for the LightMobile and I was running on the knife edge of being late for an appointment. I stopped at a gas station. For some reason, best known only to the prince of the powers of the air, the pumps were flashing a sign that said, “Pay cashier before pumping gas.” So I did. I pumped my gas. Just as I finished and climbed into my seat to pull away, a guy in a shiny, expensive Acura backed into the pump in front of me. There was a truck pulled in, waiting, behind me. I had to wait. The guy in the Acura was about 50 and far too proud of his muscles and his wraparound RayBans. He had the gall to wave and nod at me. I did not wave back. I did not think kind and gracious thoughts about him. Then I was late for my appointment. But it had nothing to do with Mr. Musclehead.

Life gets busy around the LightHouse sometimes. We don’t always get to have dinner together. Tonight was one of those nights. LightHusband was late getting home from a meeting and had just enough time to change from his suit to casual clothes and run out the door with LightGirl to her hockey practice. This left LightBoy and I with the opportunity to go out to dinner together. He picked IHOP. Yum. He had a Belgian Waffle with blueberry compote on top and bacon. I had Harvest Grain ‘Nuts pancakes, eggs and sausage.

There were several loud conversations going on around us. Not loud, as in tense. Just loud. As in the people who were having them had big voices and one was sort of forced to listen to them.

One was an early teenager whining and being disrespectful to her mother and generally mean to her younger brother. She was sullen and I was finding it very difficult to have gracious loving thoughts about her. In fact, I was finding it impossible.

The other loudmouth was part of a group. There looked to be a couple with two very young children and then the parents of one of the couple. The loudmouth was the husband/father of the young children. He was dominating the conversation. In the way that no one else seemed to be talking. He seemed to be speaking to the older lady and he spoke in such a way that it looked as though he was talking down to her. I thought that was sort of demeaning, especially since he wasn’t so smart himself. It became clear that he was talking about the current state of affairs between Japan and North Korea and the fact that North Korea had just completed nuclear arms testing. He began holding forth a somewhat simplistic and limited vision of mutually assured destruction. It included this moment of brilliance, “Well, we dropped one, no, two of ’em on Japan and it worked out okay.” I thought to myself, “I wonder what all the Japanese who used to work and live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki might say to that?” I wonder about all the cancer victims and orphans. But I guess it’s all okay because no Americans died and we intimidated the Soviets. I had a bloody tongue by this time. But he continued, completely oblivious to my distress. “Well the Russians knew to leave us alone. The Chinese … they know to leave us alone. We know to leave them alone. It all works out. But these other radicals. There’s no keeping them in one place. They just do what they want. [by this time he was waving his fat arms around … and I was sitting on my hands]” Somehow he had jumped from mutually assured destruction to the war on terror (which is complete fiction) and nuclear war and dealing with terrorists in one large illogical step. I had to leave.

On the other hand, our server was the kindest, most gracious lady I’ve met under those circumstances. She was brilliant. Even with whiny, sullen teenager, she sparkled and shone. It was miraculous. I’m not sure how she did it.

By the way, for every member of the Democratic National Committee who reads this blog: running Hillary Rodham Clinton for president in 2008 will be the biggest mistake in the history of the Democratic Party … bar none. You heard it here first, there is literally not one other person in the party who is so guaranteed to draw out the vote against a Democrat as she is. If you want to guarantee a HUGE Republican turnout in 2008, then run HRC, she’ll be your best bet to get the Republicans out in droves or should I say Roves.